I believe they are decentralizing their servers too, so they are not all run in the same location.
1500 nodes for 80 slots? How true is that?
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I understand your concerns. Most of the node owners I have heard from say it takes about 3 months of earning to get a good idea of average returns.
If we had a tool like is mentioned Here I think it would help to ease current and future node owners concerns about earning bc we would have an average earned per node from this data.
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The only problem I see with this, is that PRV earnings will go down over time as more nodes come online, but if PRV value is increasing that may offset…
But even if I look at my averages over the life of vNodes I have been running, depending on how long I take those averages back it could still be misrepresenting what someone who gets one right now would be earning.
It is difficult to have these static post be good resources for new pNode owners, since PRV price, number of nodes (even shards and spots), will be changing over time. The tool could be useful, but only if it was able to adjust those averages to show a moving average, or something similar.
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That’s the point: IMO ppl can revert joining to quitting if nodes won’t bring them at least 0 losses returns which means balance btw paid compute power and joining fee of ~$1400 now.
I feel like you didn’t get my message 
. I’m concerning about that above - about quitting.
In your your pointing me to jserver, @andrey, you should understand that the decision to jump on their servers was forced by actual price for 4CPU server on Vultr or other vps.
And that decision hurts me as a true decentralization believer! I wanted to run my node myself and I can even agree get 0 balance for years while the protocol I see power in is building important things.
Hope you understand this.
My message here is not about quick earnings, I’m about long run.
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So what’s the problem if some people will shut down their nodes ?
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Hey @nickvasilich,
I get what you’re saying. If there are only 80 slots and 1500 validators, earnings go down. And, that means it’s harder to make your investment back as a validator, especially when you pay for VPS hosting. That can hurt validators.
Rest assured, we have all thought about it. More discussion is always welcome, just know this:
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There is a plan to increase slots by April 2021, when we’ve completed consensus v2, randomness v2, etc, less than a year away. Slots per shard will increase, and number of shards will increase. Soon enough, there will be more than 16,000 available slots, and probably not enough validators. So we have to work as hard as we can to bring as many validators as we can by that time.
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Slots cycle, so the number isn’t the only important thing. It depends how fast the epochs pass by, and how many transactions there are to process. With more transactions, validators will earn more. And the team isn’t just focused on adding validators, they’re working hard to increase transaction and trading volume too.
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If the VPS server is too expensive, there are much less expensive options available, and you don’t have to use JServers if you don’t want. Contabo or any other works as well.
It can be frustrating now, but you will earn even before we add slots. And you can stop being a validator now, and come back when slots open up, but you’ll miss out in the meantime. I don’t like to focus on this, but if PRV price were to continue to increase, being a validator as that happens would be great. Now, I am 100% certain price will also go down as well. So it’s up to you whether you unstake. I personally wouldn’t, but I can see why one would. If I did, I’d at least hang on to the PRV needed to stake. Who knows what it would cost to stake 1750 later. Maybe more, maybe less.
Anyway, that’s the info I have. There are no guarantees, and I’m not suggesting you take a certain course of action, but hopefully some of that info was helpful.
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You can say problem if it be not “some”. Now I see you get my point of view. Asking your question I can assume you (team) consider that.
So I got 2 answers for my questions:
1/ 80 earning slots for 1500 Validators is a reality
2/ team understands the ability that some ppl can switch their nodes
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You got me right. Just a small remark: I think the more node the better for the chain, that’s why I raised the question that I assume can take the opposite effect.
All that you meant above is a general statement for any type of staking - it always our decision to join or to skip. I clearly understand that, but thanks again.
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More nodes is better for the chain once the fixed slots are removed. In December we only had 800 validators, so even if half of them leave now it’s sad, but not going to destroy the network. That’s one of many reasons for fixed slots.
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I think the big issue here was the misunderstanding about earning possibilities. I’ve had the node for a long while, I think since right around the start. I am earning far LESS now than when I first set up the pNode. This was always going to be a long term project and I am looking forward to seeing what things look like come next year.
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Yes but PRV value is also a lot higher, so what you’re proportionally earning in $USD is probably not that much different.
My nodes shall remain indefinitely.
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I agree. Upfront clarity is huge. It’s all there, but it’s a lot of reading across the site. We’re working on it.
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Not for me.
I clearly mentioned what the concern is.
@aaron and @andrey got me correct. And what I was worried about was not an issue as I see now.
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For some reason this has been the most insightful thread I’ve come across thus far. There are definitely merits for engaging the same rhetoric from different perspectives!
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% agree and I’m glad if you were able to find smth useful for you here:+1:
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I loved reading your posts guys, because this is some things that has been on my mind for the last couple weeks. But clarify something for me, I was informed when I bought my first pnode that 35% of earnings when funded by the “fund” goes to us as a reward and the remaining goes back to incognito until the “borrowed” PRV is paid back. Has this changed? I thought once they got their 65% up to 1750 PRV that our earnings will turn to 100%??
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@Justin_Smith it is not correct. There is no “borrowed - paid back” here. Previously when you bought your first node, it was 25% - 75%, too.
Let’s read about the current pNode mechanism here: pNode Staking Mechanism
At any time, when you have 1750 PRV, you can stake it yourself and earn 100%. That 1750 is yours, and you can unstake it and take it back. But with borrowed staking, the 65% that goes to Incognito isn’t a payment for borrowed funds, but a source of funding for the DAO (proposals, costs, etc.)
That’s why after 1750 PRV you don’t automatically convert to your own staking, because someone would still need to provide the 1750. If the other 65% were just going to funding your stake, it would be like you’re getting the full 100% even on borrowed stake, just into your stake rather than your reward payout. Does that make sense?
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