Plasma: On-chain Availability + Fraud Detection

[Grant]

Hi guys!

Plasma was an idea floated a few years ago for "sidechains that have a non-custodial property: if there is any error in the Plasma chain, then the error can be detected, and users can safely exit the Plasma chain and prevent the attacker from doing any lasting damage. " Source: vitalik.ca

The big issues that plasma wanted to solve were:

1. Availability: If you participate in a sidechain, you should be able to mint/burn/view from the mainchain at any time, regardless of the status of the sidechain network.
2. Fraud Detection: If there’s a cryptographic error that’s accepted by the sidechain, the mainchain can detect it and redirect funds appropriately.

Granted, nobody ever got this working before rollups stole all the attention. But I’m wondering, what are you guys’ thoughts on these issues?

[Revolve]

Hmm, I’m not to familiar with Plasma.
I know you can view transactions through Incscan.io, but i’m not sure if that’s what your asking. I think your looking for something more technical. If the sidechain goes down, then your assets are locked and not redeemable. However, that’s the same with all crypto blockchains. That’s why it’s distributed. Incognito uses nodes and sharding to do this. From what I understand, nodes validate shards and the shards get put together to from the mainchain. You can also view all that data on Incscan.io. Nodes also use proof of stake and who validates shards, is completely random.

As for fraud detection. To generate pCoins it is required to have a proof of deposit. To redeem pCoins it is required to have proof of burn. Funds can’t be released without these proofs. I don’t think detection is the issue. From what I read, Plasma’s goal was to try’s to limit damage from fraud, while other methods try to eliminate fraud in general.

Though, Incognito is in the process of creating a BTC trustless custodian, idk if that’s important to your concerns, but it shows you the direction they are going in.

I’m not sure if I added much to the conversation, but I tried

[Grant]

@Revolve

However, that’s the same with all crypto blockchains.

Unless they use Plasma

This illustration is about optimistic rollup but applies

[Revolve]

Sure, valid concern, but just like capitalism, there’s incentive to continue going. People are making money from transactions. When there is opportunity to make money, you can pretty much bet your life on it, that people will be there. Unless of course, massive solar flares, or destruction of modern day civilization happens. Which, maybe I wouldn’t say that we currently aren’t heading towards that direction, 2020 sure is getting wild
If standard crypto blockchains get shut down, we have more problems going on then me worrying about the fake value stored in my fake wallets.

[Grant]

@Revolve

fake value stored in my fake wallets.

Hopefully Incognito is more than this

[Revolve]

I’m not talking about just Incognito, at the end of the day money is just a piece of paper. In survival situations the value is completely worthless. It’s only valuable cause we all agree it is. Same with crypto.

[Grant]

I feel you.

[zes333]

@Grant I’m very glad you’re back! Welcome back!

[duc]

Hey @Grant, long time no see, and thanks for your question!

Just like @Revolve mentioned, in the Ethereum trustless bridge, in order to port ETH/ERC20 to pETH/pERC20, one needs to provide a deposit proof and Incognito validators would verify the validity of the proof. Conversely, to redeem ETH/ERC20 from pETH/pERC20, it is needed to burn pCoins first and submit a burn-proof that is signed by Incognito validators to vault contract to get your original tokens back. Thereby, we’re trying our best to prevent frauds and making it safe as much as possible (with a hope there is no cryptographic error as you concerned )

Regarding Availability concern, this is really tough to have such a mechanism that regardless of status of the sidechain (in this case it’s Incognito chain). Fortunately, Incognito chain is a decentralized/distributed network and its code is open-sourced so anyone can become a validator and attend consensus process with ease. In other words, the community can run and maintain the network’s availability if they feel it’s worth and doesn’t need to depend on any centralized institutions. As long as the network is still up and the burn-proof is signed by its validators, you can get your money back at any time.

[Grant]

Makes sense, thanks!